Rules question? Ask a ref.

Rules of Derby (according to WFTDA) ask our all-knowing officials whatever you like.
Rosie Peacock
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Rosie Peacock » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:32 pm

Saw this scenario lots at a coed tourney yesterday- skater a commits a penalty on skater b forcing them down due to illegal contact- skater b them hits the deck and skater x falls over them.
Both skater a and b sent off for pemalities.
Skater a for their illegal Shia and skater b normally for a low blood clot as they've fallen badly.
I'm pretty sure this is co react just feels a but crappy to also penalise skater b for a low block when the only reason they fell was due to illegal contact by skater a :(

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Mags Payne
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Mags Payne » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:52 pm

Lannthrax wrote:Thank you for your reply :D you never let me down. The reason I'm asking is because I was at the MCRD games last weekend and there was a huge host of things happening by the refs (understandably they were relatively new) but the more experienced refs weren't taking the moment to correct or explain things.
I really wish there were more refs like yourself who don't see a skater questioning your call as a manner of disrespect but see it as the skater trying to Learn. I'm really happy that you have created a safe space within ARRG for such discussion.
NOW, how do we get this Ref ethos out there into the world? Haha.

X
You never know, the less experienced refs may have been correct ;) I try not to 'back seat' ref from the audience - because you aren't in the same position as the referee, and we have to be very sure in what we call. You tend to find newer refs under call things, because they aren't 100% of themselves and their calls.

Most referees I know are totally fine to be asked why they were called something - it's all down to how you question it :) So if you go "I don't understand why I got that cut/back block/low block, can you explain?" they'll talk all day to you about it. If you go "That wasn't a back block, why did you call it?" you've put them on the defensive. It's all about opening a dialogue of mutually respectful communication :)
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Mags Payne
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Mags Payne » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:01 pm

Rosie Peacock wrote:Saw this scenario lots at a coed tourney yesterday- skater a commits a penalty on skater b forcing them down due to illegal contact- skater b them hits the deck and skater x falls over them.
Both skater a and b sent off for pemalities.
Skater a for their illegal Shia and skater b normally for a low blood clot as they've fallen badly.
I'm pretty sure this is co react just feels a but crappy to also penalise skater b for a low block when the only reason they fell was due to illegal contact by skater a :(
Hi Rosie Bosie,

This one always does feel really unfair!

5.3.10 - Flailing and sprawling Skaters who low block an opponent causing the recipient to fall or lose relative position.

The only NI/NP you can get for this is:

5.3.4 - A Skater who “falls small” in an effort to avoid low blocking, affecting an opponent’s relative position.

So if you manage to control your fall, fall small, and still get fallen over, that's OK, no penalty. But if you are wiped out and sprawl and someone falls over, then you're getting a penalty.

It does seem really unfair, but this is currently the way WFTDA membership want it. :)
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emKa
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by emKa » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:47 pm

I would really like to have penalties called "illegal Shia" and "low blood clot" :refbanana: :refbanana: :refbanana:
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Vanessa
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Vanessa » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:11 pm

Today at scrims I got a "charging" misconduct penalty (at least I think that was the proper name for it). Mags very helpfully explained it to me later but a few people I asked before didn't know what it was either so maybe it would be good to hear what it is here? Please, lovely and wise refs!
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Mags Payne
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Mags Payne » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:28 pm

Yes! Charging. Everyone loves Charging.

SO
5.16.9 - Executing a block on an opponent who is down.
That's charging. In a nutshell.

But executing a block doesn't just mean hitting someone:
4.1.1 - “Blocking” refers to any physical contact made to an opponent, and to any movement or placement of one’s body to impede said opponent’s speed of movement (even if no contact is made; this is considered “positional blocking”). This only includes actions and positioning taken during a jam (though other forms of contact may be illegal even if not committed during a jam).
So any physical contact.

Now, as a ref, we're not going to punish every single incidental touch that happens. That would be time consuming! But if we see you initiate contact with a downed skater, or continue to block a downed skater after they've fallen, we'll give a penalty.

So the thing that happened tonight - a skater was down, you came in too fast, and couldn't stop so hit her. That's a charging penalty :)
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Vanessa
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Vanessa » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:53 pm

Thanks, Mags! I feel wiser already.
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