Rules question? Ask a ref.

Rules of Derby (according to WFTDA) ask our all-knowing officials whatever you like.
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Blind Io
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Blind Io » Tue May 19, 2015 3:46 pm

Hi Pumm, the WFTDA Officiating Standard Practices document (http://wftda.com/officiating/wftda-offi ... ctices.pdf) talks about this a little:
A Penalty Box Official should answer a Skater or bench staff about any Skater on either team when they ask how much penalty time is remaining, if doing so does not disrupt the Penalty Box Official’s primary duties.
Other common questions in the Penalty Box that are fine are things like asking for water, asking where the Penalty Box boundaries are (if it's not clear).

However if your question is not related to Penalty Box issues (e.g. asking if the NSO knows why you were given a penalty), you will probably not get an answer from the NSOs.
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Pummela
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Pummela » Mon May 25, 2015 9:22 am

Thanks, that's really helpful! :wcsmile2:
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Pukeahontas
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Pukeahontas » Tue May 26, 2015 9:05 am

Hi Refs!

Just looking for a clarification, if a jammer removes the star during her initial pass, she passes some (or all) of the opposing blockers while the panty is in her hand, is she still eligible for lead jammer?

Thanks!

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Mags Payne
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Mags Payne » Tue May 26, 2015 9:20 am

This is a bit of an awkward one.

If she starts with the cover in her hand, and passes *some* of the blockers - she can put it on and legally repass them and gain lead jammer status (if it's not been given out already.

HOWEVER, if she starts with the cover on, the moment she removes it (for whatever reason), she's ineligible to get or keep lead:
Lead Jammer status (if obtained), and the ability to become Lead Jammer are forfeited by:

2.4.8.1 - The Jammer removing the helmet cover for any reason.

2.4.8.2 - The Jammer being assessed a penalty.

2.4.8.3 - The Jammer having their helmet cover intentionally removed by a teammate.
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Pukeahontas
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Pukeahontas » Tue May 26, 2015 9:38 am

Excellent! That's what I thought but nice to have clarification. Thanks!

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Blind Io
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Blind Io » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:18 am

Hi refs!

Under what circumstances can a Skater receive multiple penalties: does each penalty have to be awarded for a completely separate action or can a Skater pick up a cutting plus back block for one particularly unfortunate collision?
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Mags Payne
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Mags Payne » Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:53 am

Hello pal,

Ok, so you can *only* receive penalties for 1 complete action. This is covered by the penalty hierarchies, so if you shove someone in the back with your forearms, you will ONLY recieve a backblock penalty (or expulsion, if you were being really dangerous). This is the hierarchy:
  • Gross Misconduct/Misconduct
    Blocking to the Head/Blocking With the Head
    Position on the Track (Out of Play, Out of Bounds, Direction of Game Play)
    Illegal Target Zone
    Illegal Blocking Zone
    All other non-contact penalties (such as Cutting, Skating Out of Bounds, Illegal Procedures, Insubordination)
It makes sense if you think about it:

Really bad stuff
Really dangerous stuff
Stuff that can prevent the game being played/is basically not playing derby
Stuff you shouldn't hit
Stuff you shouldn't hit with
That's not good, but not really having impact

So that makes sense. 2 illegal actions in one movement means that you get one penalty.

But, if there's TWO separate actions then you need two separate penalties.

So for example, if you take a knee to avoid a block that's a penalty. But after you've taken a knee, you get back up and elbow someone off track that's ALSO a penalty. Two actions, two penalties. Sadly it's hard one to give an example of easily because it's all in 'make a call, ref' territory. Were the actions distinct or did a lot happen at once? A lot of newer/inexperienced referees will accumulate a lot of penalties for skaters because they aren't sure and over penalise. Also remember, that once the referee makes a call, then the skater basically can't accumulate more penalties for things unless it's insubordination or misconduct (or you do something massively ejection worthy):
6.1.1.1 - A penalty is considered to be assessed, and a Skater is considered to have been sent to the Penalty Box, once the action that warrants a penalty has been committed.

6.1.1.2 - No Skater, including the Skater who has earned the penalty, can be held responsible for behaving as if a penalty has been assessed until the Official has completed the appropriate hand signals and verbal cues.
So until the penalty is called, you can continue to accumulate penalties.

Does this make sense? It's a difficult one to consider and you won't see it often. Basically, if you seen this happen more than once in a half, then someone's possibly being over-sensitive with their calls, or the skaters are REALLY packing those penalties in :)
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Katy
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Katy » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:21 am

This might seem like an odd one, but are there any rules for bench coaches/LUM's conduct etc?

Obviously we have to stay in our team box, but I wonder if there's any other rules in place for things we can't do?
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Mags Payne
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Mags Payne » Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:45 am

Yup, there's plenty:

Illegal Procedures:
5.13.10 - Entering the Penalty Box to communicate with a penalized Skater (see Section 6.2.4.1).
5.13.10.2 - If a team’s non-skating bench staff enters the Penalty Box to communicate with a penalized Skater, this penalty will be issued to their team’s Captain.
Misconducts/Gross Misconducts:
5.16.20 - Illegal interference in game play by Skaters or support staff not involved in the jam.

5.16.21 - The repeated use of obscene, profane, or abusive language or gestures directed at a mascot, announcer, audience member, or other event production individuals.

5.16.22 - The repetitive and excessive use of obscene, profane, or abusive language or gestures directed at an opponent, teammate, manager, coach, or other support staff.
However, since Misconducts allow for penalisation of any action that basically undermines the dignity of the sport, there is scope for Official discretion and penalties to be awarded that aren't explicitly in the rules. I'm fuzzy on whether the fighting rule is only for skaters, but I have no problem with imagining 99.9% of all referees would bin coaches trying to fight people. Or bite people. I'd imagine this would also include things like:

Being drunk/high/'impaired' - After all - 7.5.2.6 Coaches and managers are held to the same standard of sportsmanlike behavior as skaters. Skaters aren't allowed to be drunk or whatever, so we could remove a bench for the same.

Doing anything that involves physically threatening someone or such.

Pushing over a referee/running into them during the 30 seconds.


To be honest, as long as you STAY IN YOUR BOX and don't yell nasty things at people, you'll be fine.
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Katy
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Re: Rules question? Ask a ref.

Post by Katy » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:06 pm

The boxes are really small though!!
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Did you know I always wanted to be a dancer in Vegas? ~ From the movie that gave me my derby name

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